former chief of staff of bill clinton. john has to leave us early. we have the director of the urban institute's tax policy center. we'll see if you two disagree on anything. we have will marshal from the progressive policy institute. we have senator bob packwood from oregon, former chairman of the senate finance committee, part of the 1986 negotiations. and the other folks here have been part of the conversation. my only message to the new arrivals, please jump in whenever you see fit. we have an hour to an hour and a half. if you hear something you want to weigh in on, don't wait for me. we're talking now about the other very small issue in this issue and that is tax policy and how best to put the nation on a sustainable fiscal path. the question of revenue, how much, where to get it, the options on the table and would like your thoughts. as you heard from chairman bachus. they need ideas to bridge this gap because we appear to be at a stale mate. i turn it over to john to get your thoughts knowing he has to leave and the center for american progre